Tulsa Race Massacre survivor talks about lawsuit, struggle

Wednesday marks the second day, 101 years ago, that a white mob massacred a Black community in Tulsa, Oklahoma – killing citizens, running residents away from their homes, burning buildings and destroying wealth that had been built over decades in what was known as Black Wall Street. The destruction began May 31, 1921, and lasted through June 1.

Last month, Hughes Van Ellis – who is 101 and was only a few months old when he and his family were driven out of Tulsa’s Greenwood District – attorney Damario Solomon-Simmons and others involved in a lawsuit against the city, cried, clapped, hollered and hugged (after years of fighting) as a judge ruled that their suit could proceed. 

It was a small victory, but it felt to the survivors – who lost opportunities at education, moved from city to city looking for work and never again found the tight-knit success of Tulsa – and the many descendants like the rush of victory after a long-fought war. 

The suit – which seeks reparations for survivors and descendants in the form of, among other things, a victims compensation fund – is just beginning. 

Ellis, known as Uncle Red, and Solomon-Simmons spoke to us about the legal proceedings, the destruction of Tulsa and what life was like in the aftermath. 

Below are excerpts from that conversation. They have been edited for clarity, brevity and style:   

Damario, where do things stand now with the lawsuit? We learned earlier that it will proceed. Where are you all now in the process?

Damario Solomon-Simmons: First, thank you for this opportunity to talk with you today dealing with the lawsuit. On May 2, we heard from a judge that part of our case will move forward. We’re very excited to hear that. But at this point, we have not received the written order that we’ve been waiting on, so we can know exactly how the case is going to move forward, exactly what are the next steps. But we’re preparing for everything. We’re ready for everything. And we just hope that we get that order from the judge any day now.

How did you feel when you heard about the judge’s decision?

Solomon-Simmons: It was the greatest feeling I’ve had professionally in my life. I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I was very surprised. I was shocked when she first stated that she was gonna give her decision that day, we did not expect that. … I looked and I saw Uncle Red, and other two survivors. I saw him with tears of joy. And it just brought me tears of joy. … I just wish it was on video because there were hundreds of people in the court room – descendants and survivors and community members – and we just busted out into a chant “justice for Greenwood.”

Hughes Van Ellis: I was crying and happy and cheering. It came so fast that really surprised us … she made that decision so quick. It just knocked us over; we were screaming and hollering and hugging. I said before I went in court: “We’re going to pass this test.” And we passed. This is something. You go back 101 years and you make a case. … Some good has got to come out of this … 101 years. I was just a … child. Also, I served in United States Army. I served in a segregated Army. I went to war … so I survived twice: survived the massacre; survived the United States Army. … I want to be made whole. I want some credit for this. 

You mentioned that you were a child when the massacre happened. What do you remember your family telling you about the massacre when you were growing up?

Ellis: Now my sister was telling me about the massacre. Back then we were not supposed to talk about anything. … She said that people were running and screaming and guns shooting and it was late at night and we heard it; and my dad, he got us all up … and put us on a wagon; we took it and went out of town. … And they were looking for Black people. … We didn’t wait. … My dad got us out of there. … We had no shoes on, no hats. He managed to get us out of there on a horse and a wagon. I couldn’t believe it. … And I understand they dropped bombs on us. Bombs. … The things my sister told me, I couldn’t believe it. … Some people were dragged into the streets. They were thrown in the Arkansas River. 

What do you consider justice for you and for your family?

Ellis: Pay us some money. And we can take it back and help other Black people. It’s gonna help with college, homeless people. It’s going to help us. It’s going to give us some opportunity. … I didn’t get my high school diploma until I got out of the service. I might have been a lawyer, a doctor. You see, colored men had to work digging ditches and cleaning. They didn’t give us any skilled jobs. If I had had a chance to go to school and get a college education, I might have been a contractor. I might have been a scientist. I didn’t have that chance. 

Solomon-Simmons: In Greenwood at the time, you had a very very successful educational program and schools, both at the elementary level and then obviously at the high school level with Booker T. Washington High School, which was a world-renowned high school at that time, as it is today. And when their family had to flee as he talks about in a horse and buggy, they had to go 25 (or) 30 miles east of Tulsa to a little place called Claremore. And they lived in a tent. And they lived in a very rural area and a very rural life. And Uncle Red was actually 6 months old at the time. 

Ellis: Right, I lived in a tent. We went to the river to wash our clothes, hung them out on the limbs to dry. That’s what we had to do. … It was rough. My dad, he didn’t have good jobs. He would get the chance to cut white folks’ yards. Some of the kids … got the chance to go to school. But we moved around all the time trying to find work. We didn’t stay in a town too long. If we couldn’t do any good in one town, we’d move to another one. We moved to Kansas, two or three cities in Kansas. Sometimes we’d get a chance to help bail the hay and chop the cotton and stuff like that. 

Repairing America:Reparations and the fight for justice across the country

Did your family ever find a community that was as good as Tulsa?

Ellis: No.

In what other ways did the massacre affect your life long term?

Ellis: Long term, mainly for not getting an education. I managed. I raised seven kids. I managed to get some of them into college, some of them not. I worked day and night. I worked weekends. … I kept food in the house. I kept them clothed. I worked seven days a week. 

How do you feel like your life and the lives of your children would have been different if Tulsa had never happened, if the race massacre had never happened?

Ellis: Probably all of them would have had the chance to go to school and get an education. … When you have to move somewhere and know that you might get a chance to do things, but couldn’t do it. It took your life away from you is what it did. … I had three daughters who managed to go to school and get an education. Some of the boys, they didn’t get a chance.  

Solomon-Simmons: You know to piggyback on what Uncle Red has said, we, for the last two or three years, have talked about just the survivors that are here. But I can tell you survivors going back since I started working on this issue almost 25 years ago have always said they wanted education, they wanted scholarships, they wanted land redevelopment, they want ownership back into Black businesses, they want the community and young people to have an opportunity to be successful. To go back to what Greenwood was not just before the massacre, but even what Greenwood was after the massacre up until urban development when they came in and did basically a second massacre and destroyed whatever remnants were available by putting the highway 244 directly through the community. And one of the things we want to see, all of us that’s involved in this issue, we want the highway removed, because it stands there as a symbol of our oppression and our segregation. And that is something that is very difficult for us to see on a daily basis. And it makes it difficult for us to move forward to get the healing, not just the physical healing and the financial healing, but it’s a mental and emotional and spiritual healing that has plagued this community for 101 years.

So this is not just about a financial reward? 

Solomon-Simmons: Oh, absolutely not. In fact, I mean, our public nuisance case is a case for the entire community, a public nuisance case saying we want to be made whole as a community, a part of being made whole as a community may include obviously some type of financial compensation to what we’re asking for, a financial victims’ compensation fund. But it’s bigger than that. We’re talking about completely eradicating the nuisance that is continuing. That means doing everything that’s necessary. That’s a land trust, that’s scholarships, that’s abatement of taxes, that is identifying all those who were perpetrators. We want to be made completely whole, as Uncle Red has talked about. It’s not just about a check. 

Ellis: We want to live like other people live. We want other people to know who we are. White people don’t know who we are. We’re human beings like they are. We want the opportunities that they have. We don’t get that. That’s what we want. We want to be made whole. We want to be Americans like other Americans. … Good jobs. Good opportunity for our young people. Good opportunities for all Black people. That’s what I’m looking for.

Solomon-Simmons: I think when he says we are one and be treated like one America, that’s what this case is about. He also talked about we want to be treated as first-class Americans. Because first-class citizenship means when there’s a harm, there’s a remedy to fix the harm. … If we can win in Tulsa, we can win everywhere. And that’s why it’s so important. 

Ellis: That’s right. We’re going to fight to the finish. If it takes me 30 more years to do that, I’m going to fight. I’m like Popeye. I eat my spinach, I fight to the finish. … I want to be represented as an American. See, we built this country. Go to another country … everybody wants to be an American. I built America. Why not let me be an American? That’s what I want. 

If the lawsuit doesn’t go as expected, what’s next? 

Solomon-Simmons: Regardless of what happens, we’ll continue to fight for our rights and our dignity. … One of the most famous or infamous photos they have of the massacre … it’s written (on it) …  it says “running the negro out of Tulsa.” That was the stated goal. The specific intent was to totally eradicate our existence in Tulsa. Yet, here we still are. And we’re still fighting.