When You Finish Saving the World, Fleishman Is In Trouble
Written by on January 21, 2023
For a notoriously left-leaning industry, Hollywood isn’t shy about owning the libs. The past several years have seen countless movies and shows that poke fun at everything from millennials’ beverage of choice, to the racism of certain white Obama voters, to the entire city of Portland. And, you know, fair. Being on the (relatively) right side of history doesn’t absolve absolutely ridiculous behavior.
But few pieces of art have interrogated well-meaning liberals’ foibles quite like Jesse Eisenberg’s directorial debut, When You Finish Saving the World. The film, out this Friday, follows a social worker named Evelyn (Julianne Moore) and her live-streaming musician son, Ziggy (Finn Wolfhard). They sputter through their relationships with each other and with stand-ins: Evelyn tries to mother a teen boy at the shelter. Ziggy tries to woo a student activist. Though at times quite funny, the film differentiates itself with its earnest, grounded approach. Evelyn and Ziggy are portrayed like real people with authentic faults, not mere punchlines for Eisenberg’s clever jabs.
The movie, Eisenberg will tell you, owes its sincerity to his own lived experience and conflicted identity. He, like Ziggy, grew up white and privileged in a liberal household, and in high school fell in love with a social justice activist. During his two-decade career as an actor, he has observed the way society has rewarded him with riches, praise, and recognition—hello, this article!—while mostly ignoring the important work of the woman he fell in love with and eventually married. “I have a lot of trouble reconciling the value of what I do against the value of what my wife does,” Eisenberg says. “She teaches disability justice and visibility in the public schools here in New York and is such a great person, but when we walk down the street I’m the one who gets the attention.”
Eisenberg, of course, is a great actor—but this doesn’t strike me as false modesty. If you connect the dots throughout his career you’ll find certain themes recurring: power, hubris, and the inherent unfairness of American life. In the following interview, we discuss why he’s drawn to arrogant characters, whether he would be interested in playing Sam Bankman-Fried in an eventual biopic, and how first-time directors get him to star in their projects.
ESQUIRE: In terms of When You Finish Saving the World‘s critical-but-not-satirical tone, how did you get your cast and crew on the same page?
Jesse Eisenberg: As an actor, I’m often tasked with playing parts that are pawns in the story. Maybe my character is supposed to be the writer’s commentary on a certain thing. And I resent trying to play that kind of thing, because it’s not how actors work. You don’t think of yourself as a representation of something—you think of yourself as a person. So I think when I’m writing characters, I provide them with the same sensibility, which is that no one is a cliché or a half-formed idea that I’m using to show how clever I am about liberal hypocrisy.
This movie started as an audiobook that I wrote for Audible. I wrote a novel-length book, which is a six-hour audio play. And I wrote from these characters’ perspectives. So they’re not stand-ins for my clever ideology. They’re full-fledged people who I thought about off the page.
Julianne Moore’s character, Evelyn, struck me as being very similar to a lot of people I grew up around. What kind of direction did you give Julianne Moore?
Well, it’s the interesting juxtaposition of someone who is very educated and has very highbrow tastes, whether it’s in food, or music, or art. And yet, out of the goodness of their heart, has devoted their life to social service. So she’s not an armchair academic—she’s actually in the field. And I think that’s such an interesting juxtaposition between someone actually working every day on behalf of those truly in need, and at night living the life of being very culturally adept and savvy. I think Julianne understood what I had written instinctually. She’s just so brilliant. But her mother was a social worker and very bright. I think she understood the almost-irony of having one foot in elite culture and another in social work and helping those in immediate need.
Ziggy and Evelyn are only able to grow when they get away from each other. Do you think getting away from the people who know you best is the only way people grow in life?
I couldn’t answer what’s the best thing for people. But I always think in drama, to humble a character is very potent. As an actor, the thing I love playing the most is the moment of humbling, where your armor, and even arrogance, is broken. So for these two characters, they need to pursue a replacement for each other. Ziggy tries to woo this young woman who’s just like his mother: a social justice activist. And Evelyn tries to mother this young man at the shelter. And then they’re both rejected by those people because the way they’re handling those relationships is not appropriate. And that humbling allows them to reassess who they are as a mother and a son.
Having acted for so long, were there certain things that you wanted to incorporate from different directors you’d worked with? Or things you wanted to do differently?
Yes. I did one other movie with A24, which was The End of the Tour, and I remember I had a scene where I was supposed to get a taxi cab—this is going to sound like such a pretentious actor story—but I asked the director, “What am I even doing in this scene? Why are we filming this? Why am I getting a taxi cab?” And the director should’ve just said, “Shut up. This is the scene.” But he said, “If you don’t get that cab, you’re not going to make it to the interview. If you don’t make it to the interview, you’re going to be proven as a failure as a writer and a journalist.” So I was like, “Oh my god.” And I got that cab with everything I had. Stories like that stick out for me, because instead of the director telling me to shut up and get the cab—because that’s what we had planned—he actually brought himself down to my level and gave me exactly what I needed to do. He had such a respect and sensitivity for what I was dealing with. So when I was in charge of this movie and had to have discussions with [my crew], I tried to understand what they were concerned about, rather than just fit them into my box.
Even if it’s for the wrong reasons, Ziggy wants to learn about things that are important in the world—and he doesn’t know where to start. Do you have advice for people who want to learn about a complex topic, but don’t know where to begin?
For me, the first time I left the country was with my wife when we were dating early on. She was going to Venezuela for Christmas and I said, “Where is it? What is it? Why are you going?” And she said she was interested in the political situation that’s occurring there. And I was terrified because I didn’t know where it was and I had grown up in the New Jersey suburbs. I felt very sheltered. But I loved her. So we went down to Venezuela and it was life-changing to put myself in an uncomfortable position of being in a new place. And when I came back, the first thing I did was buy a map and put it on the wall and I started reading world news. There’s no advice there, because you have to be me twenty years ago. But the thing I took away from it is if you’re fortunate enough to meet someone who can teach you about the world, take advantage of that. Especially if you want to date them.
In this movie, Ziggy and Evelyn are arrogant and narcissistic in their own way. A lot of the characters you’ve played in the past have had those qualities, too. What draws you to those qualities?
When you see a very smart character who is smart enough to perhaps behave in a better way, you think, What is driving that person? They’re clearly intellectually capable of behaving in a way that is a little more generous. When I think about people like that, it feels inspiring. You know, I think, What is it that they’re hiding? What are they burying?
In the case of this movie, it’s quite clear. Evelyn is somebody who has created this very dogmatic sense of ethics and she lives those out completely. And yet, in her blind spot, she’s created this son who—because she’s given him a good life—he’s found his passion, which is playing shallow music online for money. And she can’t stand that the thing she created has turned into her worst nightmare. It’s a tragic place to be in. For the kid, he’s given a good education, but he’s stuck in this very intellectual milieu—and rejected by it. He decides to not just dismiss it but have contempt for it. So he scorns his mother’s good work because she’s only helping a small group of people, whereas he reaches 20,000 people. So it’s interesting to explore those kinds of characters, because you can dig in and see why they’re like that. And as an actor, you can play an easily sympathetic character, but to me that doesn’t feel like probing the depths of the psychological experience that media allows us to do.
There’s been talk about the Sam Bankman-Fried scandal being turned into a movie or television show. Given your interest in narcissistic characters, it seems like someone could tap you to do that. Do you have any interest in that story?
I read about it, like everyone else, with interest and terror and complete relief that I’m not savvy enough to buy cryptocurrency. In terms of playing the role, these things can either be done really well—when they’re done by a guy like Aaron Sorkin—or done really schlocky. It almost doesn’t matter how interesting a real story is. If it’s not dramatized well, it’s irrelevant. But no, this is obviously fascinating. On the last set I was on, this sweet woman, she kept telling me to buy crypto. I went onto one of the websites and I couldn’t navigate it. I just gave up. And it must’ve been his website because that’s the main exchange. I’m just so thankful that I didn’t have more time that night to figure out how to work that stuff.
You don’t do a lot of projects, but it seems like you have an openness to working with people who don’t have a huge track record. So how does someone like that get you to say yes to something, beyond it being great material?
The first movie I was in was Roger Dodger, and the guy, Dylan Kidd, had never made a movie before. It turned out to be the most amazing experience you can have as an actor. The movie was not only great, but it was well-liked, the part was interesting, and the other actors were great. And I’ve had so much good fortune working with people who were young. I mean, one of my favorite movies I’ve done in the last few years was called The Art of Self Defense by Riley Stearns, and he just wrote this brilliant script. He had made another very good movie, but again that was an ideal experience for me. I’ve worked with people who have made a lot of movies too, and they’re not always amazing. I don’t watch the movies I’m in, so I really just focus on the experiences I’m going to have and what character I’m going to play and live with and feel like. So I guess I’m less concerned with the final product and more concerned with just doing what’s exciting at the moment.
Eisenberg recently starred in FX’s Fleishman Is in Trouble, one of the best television series of last year.
You recently starred in Fleishman Is in Trouble. That show is so personal and emotional about relationships and marriage. Has it caused you to do any reflecting on those subjects? And has it led strangers to talk to you about that stuff?
Yes, definitely. I hear a lot of divorce stories. And Taffy [Brodesser-Akner], who wrote the series and the book, told me that after she wrote the book people would frequently come up to her and say, “Wait, did you write this about my life? Did you know about my divorce?” Because I guess it spoke so specifically to them. I’m experiencing that as an actor now. A lot of people tell me that they went through a very similar thing.
But I hear people’s divorce stories all the time. I did a movie about a mime. I hear people’s stories about how they were studying mime in college. I did an animated movie where I play a bird and everyone tells me about the parrot they bought. That is a very strange thing.
Max Cea is a writer based in Brooklyn. His work has appeared in GQ, Vulture, and Billboard, among other publications.
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